Sammy Kolker: Asking for Help is How You Get to Know People

Sammy Kolker is with Matot Corporation and represents the 5th generation of family members to work at Matot, which is 135 years old this year. Sammy is pleased and honored to be part of this family legacy. Sammy loves what she is doing and is thriving in an environment where she can really bring value and express her creativity. Sammy also sees the necessity of inviting honesty and vulnerability into the workplace, and by taking mentorship seriously, she is growing, while also helping those who come after her to thrive.

Summary:
This interview features Sammy Kolker, who represents the fifth generation working at Matot, her family’s dumbwaiter manufacturing business. She discusses growing up in the industry and how she became involved after graduating college.

Sammy talks about common family dynamics challenges in multi-generational family businesses. She highlights how Matot has implemented both formal mentorship programs through Loyola University as well as informal mentoring. This has helped improve communication and bring the family together.

When she joined, Sammy was able to express her creativity through marketing and events. She also discusses her involvement in NextGen, which has helped develop her professionally. Some challenges she faced were learning the technical aspects as a non-engineer.

Her advice for newcomers is to find your work friends and get comfortable while also pushing outside your comfort zone. Get to know people from different backgrounds and bring your unique skills. Network within your company and industry through groups like NextGen.

Transcript:
Sammy Kolker 0:00
But the nice thing about our industry and the smaller companies is that it’s okay to not know everything and to ask for help. And that actually, is how you get to know people on a different level is when they can help teach you something, you learn from them, and then maybe down the road, you’re teaching them something that they don’t know.

Matthew Allred 0:16
Hello, and welcome to the elevator careers podcast sponsored by the Allred Group. I am your host, Matt Allred. In this podcast, we talk to the people whose lives and careers are dedicated to the vertical transportation industry to inform and share lessons learned, building upon the foundation of those who have gone before to inspire the next generation of elevator careers. Today, our guest is Sammy Kolker with NATO cooperation. Sammy represents the fifth generation of family members to work at Matot, which is 135 years old this year. And she is pleased and honored to be part of this family legacy. Sammy loves what she’s doing and is thriving in an environment where she can really bring value and express her creativity. Sammy also sees the necessity of inviting honesty and vulnerability in the workplace. And by taking mentorship Seriously, she is growing while also helping those who come after her to thrive. So Sammy, welcome to the show.

Sammy Kolker 1:14
Thank you for having me. I’m excited to chat with you today.

Matthew Allred 1:18
Thank you. I’m I’m super excited to have you here and obviously wanted to continue the conversation after we met out in Reno. And I did want to start with one of my favorite questions was tell me how you got involved in the elevator industry?

Sammy Kolker 1:34
Well, I probably have a very similar answer to a large portion of the people in our industry. But I was born into it kind of grew up watching my mom and my aunt be the fourth generation in our family business. So we manufacture dumbwaiters. So we’re a supplier for a lot of these elevator companies to install our dumbwaiters. So I just sort of grew up watching my mom and my aunts being very close to my grandparents who were the third generation and just sort of like obsessed as if Matot like another family member, like growing up just always being like, curious, running around the shop or wanting to work there during the summers. Even if I was just like doing digital

Matthew Allred 2:13
So, at Thanksgiving Dinner, you’re talking about this person, they may talk does that right? Yeah,

Sammy Kolker 2:17
I mean, my cousin Matot. And so I came in during COVID on our sales and marketing team, and I’ve been here ever since.

Matthew Allred 2:25
So did I mean as a child, did you think? No way? Do I want to do that? Or I mean, what was your, your

Sammy Kolker 2:31
thought? It’s funny because I didn’t grow up like, oh, I want to be the president, I want to be a firefighter, I didn’t really have like a specific dream of something that I wanted to do. But I always knew, honestly, around like 2008, I started to develop like a deeper care for Muay Thai and like its success and making sure that it did well during the housing crisis. And it was just the first time that I had any years for it. So I thought like, Okay, this is something that I actually care about, maybe it is something that I could have a future in. But I also really liked, like dashing and creativity and designing and just creating anything. So I was like, how am I going to make this a duo that I can do for life. And as I started going through college and studying, I studied business in journalism. So I studied a little bit of family business, and what it takes to start those and, you know, function within those, I started to become more curious on like, the actual business side of a family business. And then once I was out of college and working for large corporations, I really was like, okay, not only do I not care that much about these companies deep down, but I know they don’t care about me, right. So that really helps me in my head be like, Okay, this is a real viable option for me to go into. And it’s something that I need to obviously think really hard about. And then COVID came at the perfect time for me to be like, cut ties with the corporate world. Wow.

Matthew Allred 4:00
Okay, so that’s when you actually decided to join was when COVID came and was wreaking havoc most of the world, pretty much. So and I’m guessing your your business kept going because it was essential and needed to operate. And so you were able to join and just

Sammy Kolker 4:20
Yeah, I remember, my work was shutting down. And basically we were all like, what’s going to happen, but I drive back to my parents house and I’m like, Okay, I guess I’ll be here for a bid just hanging out. And I remember the first morning that that two week shutdown was in order and my mom was on the phone all day and she was like making sure that everyone had proper notices that they can come and that they wouldn’t get in trouble. But they were determined to be a essential business right from the start. So they were they didn’t have one single day close down. We really didn’t have any aces either of COVID. So we took major precautions around that we added dividers between everyone we staggered offices. We really kept all the office employees home for the most part, and then our essential workers down on the floor. You know, they were not missing a beat with that everyone was in and we were all happy to be there. So that’s when I was like, Okay, wow, this is not only like something that is needed, but right now it’s something that we’re able to keep working through and actually were like busier than ever during that time.

Matthew Allred 5:21
Um, Wow, that’s incredible. So let’s let’s step back in time, just a little bit. Tell me a little bit about how Matot started. How you know, what’s the family story on all that?

Sammy Kolker 5:30
So in 1888, my great, great, Grandpa, I believe great, great grandpa Duffy was a wood fabricator. So we worked with wood, and he was out here in Chicago. And he was designing and fabricating basically ice boxes and ice houses for some of the olds and original beer companies. So it was either in a big ice storage house, or it was like a small box where like still blue, you know, they get their weekly delivery of like one large chunk of ice that they chiseled out all week. So that’s sort of how they started. You know, early days. If you look at some of the photos, we were delivering everything on our horse and buggy. Everything was labeled like da tat. And the guys on the shop floor, were wearing top hats, three piece sets and monocle and the little like monocle glasses. So the photos are crazy. And then he was like, I love woodworking. What else can I make with wood. So there was no real like dumbwaiters at this time, but there was a need at this time to transport from, like where the food is being prepared to where they’re serving the diners, mostly like an old homes, where they were entertaining people.

Matthew Allred 6:40
But did they keep the maybe they kept the ice down in the in the cellar. I don’t know. And then yeah, he

Sammy Kolker 6:46
identified a couple of leads, he’s like, let me just tried to make this wooden box with a rope. And you just pull it between floors. So that was like his original design, never patented it but kept going with it. And then that became his prime focus for fabrication. And he just started working on developing the perfect dumbwaiter. And then as generations kept coming in, they started you know, working with steel. And as things started innovating in the manufacturing industry, that’s when they were able to start innovating the product. So it’s really always been dumbwaiters we grew to like material lifts other larger vertical reciprocating conveyors. So the basis of design, though, has pretty much been the same.

Matthew Allred 7:30
Well, I remember seeing an old an old wooden dumbwaiter in Biltmore in North Carolina, and I don’t I wouldn’t have thought at the time to look for your, your company brand on it. But I’m just wondering if you know, whether that’s a company product or not,

Sammy Kolker 7:46
it probably was if you see an old wooden dumbwaiter it was probably one of ours. I’ll have friends that text me photos, there’ll be like at an old air Airbnb turn bed and breakfast, and they’re like, why is there a muay thai wooden dumbwaiter pulling the rope. I’m like, that’s crazy, send us photos. If you’re, if anyone’s in the Chicago area, you can come see what the original ones looked like we have in our lobby, but they’re there, they still are functional people still have them.

Matthew Allred 8:14
Alright, so one of the one of the big tricks of family, you know, businesses, especially multi generational, as I understand it is just kind of a handoff from generation to generation. I think T Bruce MacKinnon said it best. And he said that, you know, the first generation makes it second generation takes it third generation breaks it right. But you’ve obviously moved beyond that. And so I’m curious, what are some of the family dynamics that you’ve seen, when it comes to not just generationally? But even between? Siblings? Um, you mentioned your mom and her sister, run it? I mean, are there other siblings? Are there issues around that? Just love for you to talk about that?

Sammy Kolker 8:55
Yeah, I think early on, I think it’s very helpful. Obviously, there’s so many pros and cons to family business. But it really when you’re young, and you’re growing up in that atmosphere of family business, and all your family lives within a 10 minute drive with one another, you’re spending every single weekend together, and they are spending every single day together. They are developing their own, like business communication between each other that I think they learn how to and how to not do from the generation before them. So I think and it makes sense why the third generation breaks it, it’s really hard when you’re the one that starts at first generation and it’s your baby. There’s so much that’s tied into that that’s based off your own creative endeavors and your your own blood, sweat and tears. And the second generation I think, is pretty respectful of that and grew up watching that so closely. And in the world in which they created it that if they do decide to step in, they’re pretty much keeping in line with the goals and the vision that their predecessor had. So it makes sense to me that it’s then that third generation that maybe there’s a little Little, entitled men, or maybe there’s a little, oh, it’s a family business, it’s an option for me to step into, when really, I think that after you get past that third generation where there’s not as much tie so close so closely to the creators of the brand and the products that you can now start making it your own vision, and I think that’s where once you pass the third generation, there’s not as much pressure to just keep it the same as what it was and to hold so true to the values of that creator. And you can honor those, but you can also learn from them. Because, you know, there’s ways now, obviously, with the digital age that they weren’t able to use or have within their repertoire to create and market and just keep innovating their products. So I think that it’s helpful to grow up as the world is growing up in family business and to just use new technologies. But really, it I think, learning from the past communication mistakes of family and being like, Okay, I’ve watched my mom and my aunt have little Becker’s, but I do watch them really pull together and have good communication when it comes down to it, because they know that there’s so much more than just like their egos that are on the line with this. And especially, I think that it’s two women that I’m learning and growing from, I think maybe there there is, of course, going to be differences when it’s maybe it was my grandpa, and there was boys in the mix. And you want to think that like, you know, the man will take over. But it really can be different. When there’s women involved, especially in the manufacturing world, I think they weren’t necessarily always taken that serious. I remember, I was just at dinner with my grandma this weekend. And she’s always ranting about all the things that she brought into the business. And she wasn’t really taken seriously. At first, she came in sort of to do some bookkeeping, and she ended up really providing so much more for the company. And I think a lot of that was that interpersonal connection that maybe wasn’t there, that then my aunt and my mom really attached to and learn from. So now our generation, luckily, we do honestly have like next gen and other resources and mentors, and there’s more things in place for us, at least that we’ve learned from like, Okay, if a family members coming in, they need to work three years out of the business, they need to have a mentor coming in that’s outside in the loyalist School of Business. So I think they’ve learned from things that they’ve done, and they want to implement them so that it’s not so much like mom and aunt that. So there’s outside voices that are looking at the way you’re behaving and conducting yourself and are thinking like, Okay, this is what’s going to work in this what isn’t gonna work, and maybe someone else will tell you you’re not going to work. Right?

Matthew Allred 12:44
Which is a hard conversation, right? It’s it’s, I can’t imagine just how difficult that is. But I think your aunt told me that she had to fire her brother, probably she and your mom probably had to fire their brother at some point.

Sammy Kolker 12:56
Yeah. And that’s really hard. Because that’s obviously where I think a lot of other kinds of family business come in. Because, you know, there’s so much love. But there’s also another side of that, when you don’t feel that love. And it just can bleed into every other aspect of your life. So I, myself coming in, and I think my cousins and my siblings have the perspective that there’s so much fragility with how you handle things. And such a ripple effect with emotionally how you handle things, that we’re all hyper aware of it now. Yeah.

Matthew Allred 13:30
When can you tell me a little bit more about mentorship? Because in our previous conversations you had mentioned, like formal and informal and some of these things you’ve learned as a family and as a company that have really helped raise the bar. But also, it sounds like it really helped your family kind of draw together with better communication and better, just, you know, the way you get along. Yeah,

Sammy Kolker 13:54
I don’t know what sort of things they had in place before my grandparents in terms of mentorship, I don’t think a whole lot. But when my parents generation was coming in, so the fourth generation, they will the Loyola School of Business was creating a sector for family business and advising on that. And my grandparents were friends with a couple of people that were starting that and they said, Can we use you guys sort of as a case study? Can we start conducting some of our research and implementation with you guys, and see how this would look, you know, as a sector or family, so they

Matthew Allred 14:32
came to you and said, Hey, we want to bring this to you.

Sammy Kolker 14:36
Yeah, and I think my grandparents were excited about it. But also obviously, you know, that decision came with a lot of other hard decisions that they had to make that affect their family unit, which like, you can make a decision in business that usually doesn’t affect your family, but it’s so much more sensitive. So I think that they were excited to have an outside fresh set of eyes come in so they really came in and they sat down with everyone they watched, listened learned, made a couple big asks for changes if they, you know, wanted to keep their opinion going with us. So now I came in with a mentor and it was Julie, she was awesome. We spent the first year of me coming in every month, either in person meeting or on Zoom meeting. And we would do personality assessments, we would just talk about, like the struggles that come with it.

Matthew Allred 15:29
So Julie, interrupt is she’s with the Loyola school. Correct? Yeah.

Sammy Kolker 15:34
So you had her own practice, okay? Ironside. So she basically was like a contractor for them. So they would recommend people I actually spoke to, when I decided, and I told our president, like, I’m coming in, I’m ready, he gave me a list of people, I chatted with him. And I really resonated the most with her, I felt like she could give me the best feedback, and she’d be the perfect mentor for me to start with. So

Matthew Allred 15:58
this is a multi, it wasn’t just your grandparents and your parents, but this has been going on for how many years now,

Sammy Kolker 16:04
they’ve probably been working with them for at least 20 to 30 years, probably a little bit more than 30 years, um, same program that’s been running with this for us. So and we use them for a lot of other things, too. But I would say that this has been the most I’ve been impacted. But she would just take me through every little thing that I should expect. And, and I would just have someone that was obviously, you know, removed from the situation. But that was a professional within this industry that I could maybe bounce some of my hesitancies off of, because I’m sure if you talk to any kid coming into the family business, they have probably the same fear, which is like just being taken seriously and wanting to make it known that you’re there to work, and you don’t want to just be treated like the owners kid. And so that was a lot of work that you do with your mentors, like why do you feel that way? How can you combat that? What are you doing actively to get to know people on a different level, so she was extremely involved in that first year for me, which, which is always I think the Rockies year and just finding your place, and how you’re being perceived by others. And what you’re showing them? Well,

Matthew Allred 17:23
and you said, you know, being known as the owner’s kid, I mean, at some point, you have to show up and contribute to the business. And if you don’t, it doesn’t matter if you’re the owner’s kid, you’re gonna have to leave because you’re not. And that’s got to be the hardest part is okay, you’re always a part of our family. But if you don’t perform for the business, you will not be proud of the business. And that it’s gotta be super challenging to

Sammy Kolker 17:47
and I was aware of that. And I sort of said to my family before, I’m like, it’s not a good fit. Like you only let me down easily just tell me and, and I will walk away. And it’s not anything for me to just expect like it’s going to be given to me. Like I really genuinely wanted to earn it. And if I felt like they felt like I was providing a value, culturally, business wise, marketing wise doing things we hadn’t done before. If I felt like they were seeing value in me, then I would want to stay. But I don’t want to be anywhere where I’m a nuisance, or just there because our name is on the door. You know, that was probably my biggest fear the first year. So that mentorship was really important. And then I was working closer with my aunt’s in the marketing department. So I probably briefly got you my first trip in Tucson right after COVID. And that was my first trip for the NIH. And she was on the board of the NAC at the time. So it was really amazing. Going through all that with her. And just having someone that can introduce me to people. And, you know, I think I probably would have come in a little bit more timid and quiet if I didn’t have her but I probably came in the opposite. And that was around the same time that next gen was sort of having a resurgence. So utilizing that. And then I would also say business wise that our president Jim is probably my biggest like business mentor at this point. Because I’m studying the thing that he’s doing and the vision that he has with the business. And I just always feel really heard by him. And we have a really good relationship with that. So I think that will probably be like my most long term mentor, in a way.

Matthew Allred 19:29
So tell me I mean, I love the way it sounds like you’ve got, again, you’ve got formal, you’ve got inform or you’ve got this outside influence from from the University, which is going to be huge, but it sounds like as a whole as a company. You’ve kind of adopted this, if we are going to mentor each other. And, you know, people don’t I guess you know, somebody doesn’t have to tell me to do it. It’s just it becomes part of the culture it’s ingrained in and I’m curious how if you could put a I don’t know just how valuable is that? And I don’t know how to quantify that. But you know, do it does it come down to well, we probably wouldn’t be in business still, if my grandparents hadn’t hadn’t taken this on and done this, or I’m just curious if you could,

Sammy Kolker 20:18
I think it’s all about creating, like, a place that you want to be in business for, maybe we would have stayed in business, if we didn’t carry on those things and try to incorporate just strong communication and really hear each other. But I don’t think anyone would have wanted to stick around and keep bringing kids in and give me an option for for our family to maybe, you know, have issues, you know, we’re bringing in, we’re opening the door to have more possible issues than regular families would face. So I think that it’s the like, our communication and learning from the past. And just talking and having great relationships is the most important thing, because that’s like, all anything really is worth enjoying it, you know, we live to work, but we work to live. So if we can do it with the people we love, and we’re happy doing it. And if there’s little things that maybe I do that enjoy a cousin or an aunt, I’d rather they vocalize that so that they can have the best experience, we can bring the most positive atmosphere for people because if you’re not getting along with family, everyone else is gonna feel it. It’s just it creates a really toxic environment, everyone has seen it happen in some way. So I think honestly just create a work environment worth being excited to go into. And I never used to get excited to go to work, I never wanted to talk about work. The weekends were the weekends, I would shut off after 5pm. But it’s just a different level of like, love and care for what I’m doing. And I get to like, have long conversations with my grandparents, where we get to talk about things that most child, grandparent relationships don’t have. And we have such a different deeper level of connection. And like my grandpa and I can sit on the phone for you know, after I’ll go to like Reno, I’ll call my grandpa and just be tell him all the people that are there that he remember all the new things. And it’s just great, it’s such a special connection that I never would have thought I’d be able to have and that I get to go back to some of the guys in our shop floor that worked with my grandparents that are now 40 plus years in with our company that have their siblings in our business, you know, we have three brothers on the floor, we have father sons on the floor. So I get to bring back, you know, blurbs and news from my grandparents, how much they miss the guys and thought that they have. So it’s just it really makes like my family, our company’s family. And we’ve just like, it’s just really, it’s been a really positive experience. For me. That’s

Matthew Allred 22:48
awesome. And I’m thinking a couple things, as you’re saying that one is that I get the impression that every company, if they really love and care about their employees, you know, could adopt should adopt something like that just to just to create that connection, that communication because I do see toxic cultures, and I’ve worked in toxic cultures. And the other thing that comes to mind is, is it almost feels like, you know, I’ve got family extended family, it’s like whether we work together or not, it would be really cool to have a mentorship program just to teach us how to be better family members. Yeah,

Sammy Kolker 23:20
we should all have a mentor and be on point. Yeah,

Matthew Allred 23:25
that’s really cool. I love the way that it’s that you’re excited to be there. And that it’s it’s created that kind of open culture that that really does feed into the family and and like you say they kind of the extended family, that is your company.

Sammy Kolker 23:38
Yeah. And I would be excited to one day be able to provide that for someone else, whether it’s like my younger sister, or my younger cousin, or just someone younger, that’s come in the business, like I would be so excited to be able to do what people have done for me, and to bring my own thing that I’ve you know, learned along the way, and just what I feel like where the industry is moving towards, and how you can really get on board and start being a part of that.

Matthew Allred 24:04
Right, right. So I’m gonna I’m gonna shift gears for a second, you had talked about, you know, when you came on board, you’ve done more kind of creative work, and where do I fit in? Tell me a little bit more about how you’ve been able to bring your own expression to this company, because it sounds like as you were looking at it from the outside, you know, dumbwaiter I’m like, how, how creative can you be? Yeah,

Sammy Kolker 24:26
it looked a little rigid from the outside, it looks a little like, Okay, I’ll fit in a box there. And I’ll be, you know, our sales rep, or something. And honestly, I have a marketing background too. So I was like, what, where can I bring, you know, like you said, any level of creativity into this. And then for my first initial ideas, obviously creativity in terms of marketing our history, and like that amazing story and the photos and everything that we have there but I think There’s a lot of room. And that’s I think there’s some exciting like careers and new shifts that could be coming into this industry. Because obviously, our industry needs marketing, you know, like people need to market their products. But I think that what’s becoming exciting is that there’s new creative ways to market them. And if you are creative, and you want to make these things from scratch, and just have these ideas, you can really make them come true and be really different. So I remember first coming in, I sort of just like, watched, even, honestly, these booths and these shows that we do yearly, people don’t realize how much creative control and creative processes goes into it, because you’re really given like a split second to show someone who you are, what you have, what you do, are they interested in walking up and meeting you or not? And it really does come down to that creativity. And most people like don’t really think about that they put their logo up, a lot of companies do think really creatively about how to showcase and get people’s attention. So I think that it’s like an underappreciated little niche part of our industry, because people don’t necessarily think like, oh, we need to go get talent, that’s creative. But it does go so far in marketing your product. And then I just started thinking internally of it, too, because I love creating things for people that will make them excited about work, and making them excited about the company that they’re working for. So I remember, even I just started small, like, I made these little chucker hats. Like, they were really cute to me. And I was really obsessed with them. And you know, I gave them to everyone in our company. I had friends starting to wear them. And then people were asking me like, what are what is Muay Thai? What’s this hat? Can I get one? Like you want to dumbwaiter head? Sure. And I was like, Okay, wait, we can create things that like can go anywhere with this product, you don’t need to just like market to the people that are buying from us and installing our products. So then I was like, okay, we can make some fun things that people can wear. And it’s, there’s so many fun spins that you can put on something that’s like, so silly and simple. And then I started just getting excited to create things for like business, like this was our 135th year anniversary. So we had a massive pay gross for all of our employees this year, I was able to, and that’s another reason that I love, like my relationship with Jim Piper, our president, because I just come with all these crazy ideas. And I’m like, can I make this smoking pig on fire 70 inch banner, and can I put another one across, it’s all hot pink, and red and really girly. And he’s like, sure, and he just gives me a very long leash creatively to do that stuff. And then I feel so fulfilled doing both the things that maybe you look at, and they’re sort of like rigid black and white, to the book, sales quotes and orders and processes. But then I get to also like, create newsletters for our company and make fun parties and you know, make new merch for us. So there are a lot of ways if you’re creative, that you can get involved, even if you’re already involved, and you don’t do anything creatively. And then if you want to come in and you’re creative, like there’s, we always say at all of our next gen and NAC events, like there’s so much money for people to make, there’s so many opportunities for people to have. And it’s not just like, if you’re good at manufacturing, and you have an engineering brain, you can really be coming from a creative world, a digital marketing world, something that is not adjacent with elevators, and you can come in and do something so awesome. I think that’s where this next generation is kind of taking us and making it like a little more creatively interesting.

Matthew Allred 28:43
So tell me tell me, you’ve mentioned nextgen a couple times but tell the listeners a little bit more about you mentioned it kind of got re you know, kicked off a new and in Tucson Anna and I was there that was like my first Yeah, in a sea event. And so I didn’t know it was kind of coming back, I just, oh, this this thing that has probably been going on. But so let’s talk a little bit about what it is and how that has kind of driving your your development as a professional in the industry.

Sammy Kolker 29:13
So I was in the same boat as you for Tucson, I came in blind, I’m like, oh, there’s like a little next gen thing that’ll be interesting. Like I might as well stay and go to some of those seminars and get to know these people. And just from this, like, very first day that I was there, I was like, Whoa, this is actually like, seriously something that is going to be helpful and awesome for me just because like it was a tiny group of us that first trip. And we it’s just a place that on the emotional side you get to share like the challenges and the positives and either being a family business or being a next generation leader in your business. Like you don’t have to be a relative or in the family to be a part of it. So I think it’s like we’re all coming from the same struggles and we We all are sort of starting to formulate the same vision and dreams for what we want not only our roles and our companies to look like but our industry to look like. And we’ll have speakers from, you know, presidents of companies and people that have been really, really established in what they do. And then we’ll have roundtable discussions, and we talk about what they brought to the table. And so we started slow, I would say, we would have like little lunch in there happy hours after any of the events. And then this year, we had our first standalone next gen trip. So we went to Nashville in the spring. And it was really awesome. I think all of us went in, like, what are we about to spend the next three days doing. And it was such a great not only learning place for us to really educate on like new things, and we all come in with different areas of expertise. Like, we had Joe from champion give a financial report, and some of us aren’t on the financial side of our business. So to get sort of a broad look at what they’re working on. And just little things that you can start implementing, like, oh, maybe I should pay closer attention to things like that.

Matthew Allred 31:13
How does somebody get involved? In next gen, you meant you don’t have to be a family member, what do you have to be, I guess, you know, in the elevator industry, but but in someone just sign up? Or do they need their boss to kind of, you know, say, Okay, you you are sponsored? Or what does that look like? Well,

Sammy Kolker 31:29
sort of like that. I mean, like, like you said, you do not have to be a family member, um, you do have to be an in NAC. And then you do sort of need your boss or someone to give you the go ahead, because you know, you’re going to be going on trips, you’re going to be a part of this. So they do need to sign off on you to be a part. But if you want to just start slow, and like dip your toes in, send Nick Galvano, you know, a message, he’s always in New York, you can send me a message to put you in contact. So just to start getting like in our group, me, which is active and someone’s like, Oh, does anyone have an old serial diagram from this old job or that I can’t find and it’s just like, in those ways, it’s a good hub center for questions like that. And then if you want to even start small to you can go to lunch bins during the conventions, you know, you can go to the happy hours and stuff, you don’t need to really fully be invested at that point. And I would say, just reaching out to someone that you know, is a part of it will get you in contact, but it really is a if you’re in if you are in the NAC at all, and you’re under 40, there’s no reason not to be a part of it, you’re already getting like all the tools, and you’re getting the seminars, you’re getting the conventions of what the NAC offers, but then it’s a whole nother layer, especially if you’re under 40, you’re on track for leadership, you know, being a part of that community is like the community for coming up in this. Right.

Matthew Allred 32:56
And I have heard, you know, a lot of people talk about that, that if you want leadership, even if you’re starting your own business, right, just having a network is so critical. So I think it’s the same with with leadership, if you’re going to be taking over a business, having a network of people that you can trust and reach out to and ask questions. And, you know, it’s very valuable.

Sammy Kolker 33:18
And I think to our generations sort of been like, branded, the, like, I’m afraid of being on the phone, I’d rather not be in group settings, like we’re being branded that, but as soon as you like go to something like this, you’re like, Okay, we’re all the same, we’re not doing it the way that they wanted to, we’re doing it our own way. But we’re still showing up and we’re doing this, you know, and we’re getting together with people, we’re forming communities, but we’re doing it the way that we want to do it, you know,

Matthew Allred 33:46
right, right. Well, I’m the last generation I mean, group we didn’t exist when I was a young right so you’re using tools that that just weren’t around so it’s probably more effective because you know how to use this

Sammy Kolker 34:00
right and they’re making it interesting for us learning wise and they’re making pretty diverse education for us like I said, like we’ll have a financial planning and then like we’ll have Friday for us do like Mark like what he brings to marketing and how he remembers people and if someone tells him something about their family life about their personal life, you remember that and then you follow up with that and that how to be successful at those like conventions and conferences, which can be like overwhelming especially if you’re not like big on talking to people and getting to know people like there are little things that you could do that we talked about to make yourself more comfortable at big industry events like that.

Matthew Allred 34:40
Right right when and I found that just just being there saying hi talking to people I mean it gets more comfortable I think my first when I was a little nervous I felt like an outsider and and yet no one there thought it means out and outsider they were willing to talk they were willing to you know, like a good to me.

Sammy Kolker 34:59
I was like no one asked me any technical questions?

Matthew Allred 35:03
Exactly. So, a couple guess couple more questions. Before we wrap up? I’m curious, what would you say is the biggest challenge most difficult thing you’ve had to kind of learn or wrap your brain around since joining the industry? And then let’s start with that one, then I’ll give you the last one.

Sammy Kolker 35:21
I think there’s probably the technical side, and then the culture side, technically, I’m definitely not an engineer, I do, I was not gifted with that engineering brain. So I can’t really look at something and be like, Oh, that’s exactly how you put it together, these are all the components that are needed. So I had to spend every single Monday for 10 hours, for the first few months on our shop floor and a different patient, just watching a single weld all day him doing this. And I was like, Okay, let me build this, like Legos, and build this in my mind how it’ll work for me. So the technical part is challenging. And if you’re not technical, don’t let it deter you from coming in. Because you can learn it ways that work for you, you know, it may infant means like, having little drawings of what it looks like and definitions for that part. I’ve done that, too. So it’s okay to not have that technical ability, it’s okay to not have the physical ability to make the product yourself, you know, so I had to be like, Okay, I’m not going to be able to go and weld this, I know, I’m not going to be bringing that to the table. I know, I’m not going to be bringing any engineering mindset to the table. So what do I have? What skills can I bring to the table? And how do I really up those within our industry? And that that’s where for the marketing, that creative side came out, and what can I bring culture wise. And then obviously, our sales, which I was in corporate sales before, so kind of bringing that into a smaller business and into manufacturing was interesting. And then like we talked about, which a lot of kids and a lot of people in next gen struggle with, which is coming into a culture, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s like Nepo, babies are the word of the century, like, in some ways, were these Nepo babies that are coming in. And you might have a couple of people having some opinions, and it’s really your job to let them get to know you on a different ground. That’s not just being the Nepo baby, really, actually caring about them and getting to know them and why they’re there? And what makes them tick, and what are their motivations? And how can you bring that into your leadership style, when that does come. So all in all the struggles, make it easy, and you can you can talk to people that are better than that stuff that you like, I’ll go to engineering, I’m like, write this down, like you’re talking to a third grader. And that’s okay with them. You know,

Matthew Allred 37:48
hopefully, it’s I mean, knowing knowing what your strengths are, what your weaknesses are, you know, like, say, you can go to engineering, you can have them, you know, bring it down and explain and you don’t need to be all things to all people. But what you do bring, you can, you can have a blast doing that it

Sammy Kolker 38:04
sounds like, yeah, and I think that if you’re like in a big corporate world, you sort of have to pretend and there’s that impostor syndrome. But the nice thing about our industry and the smaller companies is that it’s okay to not know everything and to ask for help. And that actually, is how you get to know people on a different level is when they can help teach you something, you learn from them. And then maybe down the road, you’re teaching them something that they don’t know. So it’s just being like, open to learning. And I think our generation is so open to learning. But it’s so like, hyped about the thing that they can bring in all of the ideas that they have. I think it’s a really cool combination of the two.

Matthew Allred 38:43
Cool, very cool. So the last question I have for you is what? What advice would you give to somebody, maybe they’re new to the industry, maybe they aren’t even sure where to start? What would you tell them?

Sammy Kolker 38:57
I would say both in the company and outside the company that they’re coming into in the company, it’s always nice to determine people that you’re like minded with, that you can get along with and sort of like find your work friends and your work life and getting comfortable with that. But I also think it’s important to get a little uncomfortable at times, and like maybe reach out to people that you don’t have a ton in common with. And I think cultivating a different level of comfortability in your office place will help make you feel like you have a place there. Especially if you’re coming in from outside of the manufacturing and outside of the elevator industry. You might feel like you’re like tiptoeing in a door that you’re not supposed to be in. But everyone is supposed to be there if you want to be there. So in the in your company, I think just getting to know the people really well and find out how you can bring some of your outside creativity or outside skills in and really like present it in the way that you would want to show it like maybe make up a mock little draft of how you market your product differently and I Everyone would be impressed by that. And then getting involved in the industry obviously, like I said, reach out to me or nick or anyone that you know, that’s a next gen, of course attend as much as you can with that. Within every city, there’s other companies that are like your and for the most part they all network and work together you know, like we have the CEA the will get together, you know, I go, I went to a mostly all male golf outing this summer. And that was the second time I ever golf in my entire life. And it was like a six hour golf day. And it was very outside of my comfort box, but I knew I would meet people and they would get to see a different side of me and I would see different sides of them people that I’m emailing with and selling to and, you know, having phone conversations with so I think just like do things that are outside of your comfort zone, but just communicate to people that you’re wanting to get to know what you want to bring to the table. And maybe they can help you in ways that you honestly wouldn’t think.

Matthew Allred 40:56
Awesome sent me this has been a pleasure and a privilege. Thank you so much for being with me today.

Sammy Kolker 41:01
Thank you for having me. It’s my pleasure to Awesome. Well, I

Matthew Allred 41:04
wish you the very best and we’ll see you at the next conference.

Sammy Kolker 41:08
Yeah, we’ll see what the next conference.

Matthew Allred 41:09
Thank you for listening to the elevator careers podcast sponsored by the all red group, a leader in elevator industry recruiting. You can check us out online at elevator careers dotnet please subscribe and until next time, stay safe