Evan Rahey: Navigating the 2019 ASME Elevator Code
Intro:
Today our guest is Evan Rahey, Sales Executive with Wurtec with a specific mission to sell and promote The WURCOM Two-Way Communication Solution in compliance with 2019 ASME & code requirements.
Evan finds a lot of satisfaction working in the elevator industry and is happy to have found his niche. With his experience, Evan is uniquely qualified to educate the industry on this topic,
Evan sees a lot of companies who are reluctant or unaware that they can build their communication platform using digital technology while saying goodbye to outdated analog lines and it’s his job to bring that message to the market.
Get in touch with Evan with any 2019 ASME / CSA code questions and to learn how the Wurtec system may be best for your project
Summary:
Evan Rahey, a sales executive at Wurtec, discusses the importance of transitioning from analog POTS lines to digital solutions in elevator communication systems to comply with the 2019 ASME code. He highlights that 75% of U.S. states and Canadian provinces have adopted the code, which mandates two-way video communication and internet connectivity for elevators. Evan emphasizes the cost savings and efficiency gains of digital systems, noting that 70% of modernizations still use analog systems. He advocates for building future-proof digital solutions to avoid outdated technology. Evan also stresses the importance of educating inspectors and the market to ensure compliance and safety.
Transcript:
Evan Rahey 0:00
I go into meetings now, and I jump up, up and down, and I say, please, if you’re modernizing an elevator, if you’re building a new building, build on a digital solution. Do not build on POTS lines, because telecommunication companies, they’re no longer servicing the POTS lines. They’re no longer required to service them anymore anyway, but they don’t want to, and by association, they’re increasing the cost of what those analog POTS lines are costing. So in some markets, they’re 234, $100 per elevator car per phone line to be able to have an old POTS line still.
Matthew Allred 0:34
Hello, and welcome to the Elevator Careers Podcast sponsored by the Allred group. I am your host, Matt Allred, in this podcast, we talk to the people whose lives and careers are dedicated to the vertical transportation industry to inform and share lessons learned, building upon the foundation of those who have gone before to inspire the next generation of elevator careers. Today, our guest is Evan Rahey, sales, executive with Wurtec, with a special mission to sell and promote the workcom, two way communication solution in compliance with 2019 ASME and code requirements. Evan finds a lot of satisfaction working in the elevator industry, and is happy to have found his niche with his experience, Evan is uniquely qualified to educate the industry on this topic. Evan sees a lot of companies who are reluctant or unaware that they can build their communication platform using digital technology while saying goodbye to outdated analog lines, and it’s his job to bring that message to the market. Get in touch with Evan with any 2019, ASME CSA code questions, and to learn how the Wurtec system may be the best for your project. Evan, welcome to the show.
Evan Rahey 1:44
Matthew, it’s very good to be here, and thank you for having me on the first ever in person
Matthew Allred 1:50
The First ever in person. You’re right.
Evan Rahey 1:52
This will go down as a trivia question 25 conferences from now. Look back and say, remember that first podcast you had? Who was that weird guy on the podcast, but very happy to be here. And thank you for choosing me to be to be here.
Matthew Allred 2:07
Thank you. Now this is this is fun. I’ve enjoyed our previous conversations and and honestly, it was your suggestion. You know, let’s just do this together when we get together for the conference in New Jersey, and here we are. So might as well make it happen. So thank you again.
Evan Rahey 2:19
No problem.
Matthew Allred 2:20
So tell me, how did you get started in the elevator industry?
Evan Rahey 2:25
Well, I wish I had a really cool story of how I somehow ended up in the elevator industry, but at the time I was working in another industry, didn’t even think about elevators. Right then a recruiter called me and said, Hey, do you want to check out this position at an elevator company? I said, yeah, let me. Let me check it out. And, geez, now two, two and a half years later, I’m still in the industry and and really enjoying it
Matthew Allred 2:53
Cool. Well, what was it that, I guess, brought his attention to you? What were you doing at the time that that made him think, hey, this guy’s got what we need.
Evan Rahey 3:02
I think it was just being a sales professional. I was working sales for another company before the Caesarstone, and I think they just saw some experience on LinkedIn
Matthew Allred 3:15
but you weren’t selling pizzas. I mean, you were selling related technology. Is that correct?
Evan Rahey 3:20
You know, at the time, it wasn’t even technology. It was courts, countertops, construction related, construction related, and not really technology related. But I did have some technology in my background. I worked for Samsung for a few years, and before that was American Standard, when I really got started background, when school was technology, so I definitely had some technology experience, but they had a conversation with me, and I ended up in an elevator company.
Matthew Allred 3:52
Very cool, so, and now, I mean, you’re at Wurtec right now. What was that the first Where were you before I guess, where was it that you first landed.
Evan Rahey 4:00
My first elevator company was a company called Avire, where the brand that the elevator industry might know was Rath and Janus. Okay, I was there for about a year, and then came over to Wurtec, where I’m working right now.
Matthew Allred 4:15
Gotcha very cool. And so all time, all told, you’ve been in the elevator industry for
Evan Rahey 4:21
two, two and a half years, I’d say, I guess I’m still a newbie in the elevator industry, but it’s, it’s been a great place to be, and I’m very fortunate to be here.
Matthew Allred 4:31
It’s awesome. That’s awesome as you, as you look back on your career, what would you say it’s one of the most valuable lessons that you’ve learned thus far?
Evan Rahey 4:39
Probably that nobody is going to come and bail you out. You have to do it yourself.
Matthew Allred 4:46
Elaborate a little bit on that.
Evan Rahey 4:48
Yeah, there’s gonna be times when you think that the entire world might be against you. Been there. You don’t understand anything. You’re kind of what the heck am I doing right? And you, at that point, you need to trust in yourself and almost trust your gut a little bit to say, All right, well, the cavalry is not coming. What am I going to do to make sure that I get I get through this storm right for myself and for my family?
Matthew Allred 5:17
Very cool, very cool. What? What what do you love most about elevator industry?
Evan Rahey 5:23
By far, the people I was very fortunate during my time at Rath have to met a really good group of guys that probably served as my mentor, both professionally and personally. And there’s still people that I talk to today, and they’ve been some of my really good friends to help me through some of the ups and some of the downs in my career and personal life as well.
Matthew Allred 5:48
Did you find, I don’t know. Did you find those kinds of relationships in previous jobs?
Evan Rahey 5:56
I had relationships, but none as strong as what I found in the elevator industry now, not only just the that core group of gentlemen that I was able to meet in my previous role, but everybody from suppliers to fix your manufacturers to end customers to elevator consultants, I’ve met people that I think are that I have the strongest relationships with that I just didn’t find in other other industries
Matthew Allred 6:22
Cool. I mean, there is, there is something amazing about the community of elevator professionals,
Evan Rahey 6:28
and especially in the New York market, I love the people, because they will tell you whether they’re pissed at you, whether they love you, and they won’t waste any time we want to hate you. I’ll walk in, they’ll say, Evan, blah, blah, blah, you need to do this, this and this. And I’ll say, Great, let’s do it. Let’s get to work.
Matthew Allred 6:43
That is awesome. Yeah, I love the love the you know, let’s be direct, right? We don’t have time to waste. Let’s just say it like it is, get it done and it’s
Evan Rahey 6:51
Those are my type of people.
Matthew Allred 6:52
Awesome, So you, you told me that in this current role that you’re you’re kind of dedicated to the 2019 code change. Can you elaborate specifically? What is your part in that?
Evan Rahey 7:06
Absolutely so with the 2019 ASME code update, so far, about 75% of the states within the United States have adopted the code. So probably about 37-38 are either fully adopted or on the road to being fully adopted, as well as providences in Canada. Now what does that code mean? It really means it’s we’re now updating the elevator industry, whereas if you or I are trapped in an elevator right now, we press a button, that call button goes out, someone picks up the phone, and I can talk to somebody on the other side. Okay, now what happens if I’m deaf, if I can’t communicate to somebody on the other side through a phone? So if I’m trapped in an elevator and my only means of communication is a phone, I’m screwed, right? I have no way to tell somebody that I need help. So that’s where the new code comes into place. It mandates that you need to have a screen that the person who’s monitoring the elevator can text to the person who’s trapped in the car, and you need to have a camera to be able to see if somebody’s trapped inside that elevator. Now that’s what it means from a code standpoint, as far as the nuts and bolts of what it means for code, but the biggest impact to the elevator industry is that now it mandates the internet line, a data connection, to be connected to every single elevator car, because you can’t transmit the video feed we talked about through an old analog copper line. So you have to have an internet connection.
Matthew Allred 7:07
So it doesn’t make sense to have a screen, if it can’t communicate with somebody on the other side,
Evan Rahey 7:46
correct. Say, because that screen, that camera feed, cannot be transmitted through copper, you have to bring an internet data connection to the elevator car, gotcha. And what that does is, when you bring internet to each elevator car, it makes the copper line obsolete
Matthew Allred 9:01
Right? Yeah, I think, as I understand it, you know, typical phone line old days, you know, two little, skinny wires, and, you know, the data connection is probably four or more just to get the signal through.
Evan Rahey 9:13
It’s it’s a much, much more robust connection. It’s more secure, it’s faster, and on many instances now, it’s a lot less expensive, really, to both the elevator contractor and the end customer. Because if you think about it, if you’re building a system, and you have an analog line now, and you’re paying for that analog pots, line, service, service, sure, and now you’re adding an internet service. So now you have to pay for the Internet service. You have to pay for the analog phone service. If you’re an end customer, you got to pay for both. And you have more liability throughout the entire system. You have more components chances to break, more chances to break, more areas of failure, more components that you need to back up for battery backup, because per the code that entire system. Has to be backed up for a minimum of four hours. And if you have an analog and a digital, you gotta back both up for four hours,
Matthew Allred 10:05
right? Do you know of any specific instances? I’m sure there are some. But do you know of any where that either really would have been helpful, or, you know, where somebody was trapped? Maybe they’re deaf, maybe they, you know, couldn’t communicate in some way.
Evan Rahey 10:19
You know, when I first spoke to you about this topic, I didn’t hear of anything else in the in the industry that had something like this. But since we spoke, I’ve heard of two different examples of somebody being trapped in the elevator and they couldn’t speak. They were in the elevator just screaming. And I can’t even imagine of what that feels like, being trapped in an elevator and having somebody trying to talk to you on the other side, but you have no idea how to communicate with them. You don’t know if they’re talking to you, what they’re saying. How do I communicate back to them?
Matthew Allred 10:52
You know, as you say that, it’s interesting, because I’m thinking, you know, if I was in another country or something like that, and I couldn’t, you know, maybe I don’t know the language, so a phone isn’t going to do a lot of good if they can’t understand my language, but at least with a video, I could make some kind of gesture or something. Even use Google Translate on my phone.
Evan Rahey 11:10
You’re absolutely correct.
Matthew Allred 11:13
Interesting, interesting. So I’m curious, as you’re seeing this roll out, I mean, you obviously have a mandate to make sure the word gets out. What? What are some of the breakdowns that you’re seeing? Because you talked about people putting in a standard old line, oh, and, hey, let’s put digital on top of it. Do you see some of that going on now?
Evan Rahey 11:33
Well, when the code first came in through existence throughout the United States, everybody said, Oh, what a pain in the butt. This new code is right? They think it’s a pain in the butt because they’re looking at the code through the lens of an analog phone. Gotcha, they have an analog system. And then they go, I need to add just one more. I got to add a digital line to this. It’s now one more. I got to figure out how I’m going to do this. But really, what the code is allowing buildings and elevator contracts to do is to completely upgrade their infrastructure throughout that system. It allows them to not build an analog anymore. They can just use that one internet line, that one data connection, to run their phone line and their video line through. And when you have a system that’s built on all digital you can now monitor and maintain that system through digital you don’t have two separate systems going at the same time.
Matthew Allred 12:27
Gotcha. So it sounds like some people just aren’t seeing the opportunity to drop the POTS line, as we call it, right and just get rid of that and change to a digital system
Evan Rahey 12:38
Correct. And I do think as the manufacturer, we have a responsibility to educate the market on that. The first solutions that came to market were all analog based systems that allowed the analog phone to work, and then they added that phone digital component, component to it
Matthew Allred 12:55
Interesting. So since 2019 some some people have put that out there. And what you’re what you’re saying is, hey, let’s just forget the old analog. Let’s add a completely digital system and move on in that way.
Evan Rahey 13:07
I go into meetings now, and I jump up, up and down, and I say, please, if you’re modernizing an elevator, if you’re building a new building, build on a digital solution. Do not build on POTS lines, because telecommunication companies, they’re no longer servicing the POTS lines. They’re no longer required to service them anymore anyway, but they don’t want to, and by association, they’re increasing the cost of what those analog POTS lines are costing. So in some markets, they’re $200,$300,$400 per elevator car per phone line to be able to have an old POTS line still.
Matthew Allred 13:43
I mean, it sounds like the that a digital system would be much cheaper if you’re paying that kind of service for a POTS line.
Evan Rahey 13:50
Absolutely, if you can go all over digital you, you have to pay the internet service no matter what. Yeah, right, no matter what you’re paying the internet. So why pay both? And if you’re servicing that elevator. If you’re installing the system, why install two separate systems? We can just install the internets.
Matthew Allred 14:07
So of the modernizations you’re seeing going in, how many would you say are building fully digital versus building on analog and then trying to put a band aid or whatever they are on top
Evan Rahey 14:20
I would say, right now, 70% are still building on an analog type of solution. It’s a little bit better on new construction right now, some of the OEMs are starting to see the light, as I try to go ahead and say, but a lot of the mods, a lot of new elevators, right now, they’re still going forward with an analog solution and then adding a digital component for the video feed.
Matthew Allred 14:43
What would you say is the solution? You know the best avenue to help people understand that. You know the new paradigm, if you will.
Evan Rahey 14:51
The new paradigm is a perfect way to describe this, because I go in there and work for Wurtec now, and of course, I want them to use a. A product, but more so, I want them to choose an all digital solution, right? I want them to be able to look at the environment, the industry, and say, I don’t need my POTS lines anymore. I don’t need to wire an analog phone line throughout my entire building. The one caveat of the code is, if the building is over 60 feet of travel, you need to have an on site communication device for emergency personnel to be able to see inside that car. Now, if you have an old system that’s built on analog, most of the time, you’re going to have this big clunky box called the distribution module, right? And you wire every single phone back to that distribution module, and that is the brain of the system, and allows each phone to talk to the master station. That’s how analog is built, and you can only monitor and talk to wherever that kind of that distribution module is, right? So with digital, you don’t need that distribution module anymore. Whatever device is hooked up to the internet, you can monitor your entire system from sitting right here, we can monitor the phone line and the video line of any building that’s in my control. You could be on the beach in Atlantic City. You could be sitting at your home office. You can have five different people walking around a building, three security desks and a super and they can all monitor their system as long as they have an internet connection
Matthew Allred 15:35
so that’s, yeah, no, that’s awesome. I mean, it certainly sounds like it’s simplifying the process and obviously implementing the code and making it safer for everyone in the process.
Evan Rahey 16:31
And that’s the biggest thing that I want the market to know, is simple, right? You don’t have to look at this code as, ah, it’s a big, complicated mess. I don’t want to touch it right? I want to pull my permits before this code comes into effect. When really it’s a blessing. You can come in here and just simplify your entire communication offering throughout your elevator.
Matthew Allred 16:52
Yeah, so does, does the technology fully support it? I guess that’s my one of my question, like, as far as, like, a traveling cable, in my mind, I’m just wondering, if you know, is it more difficult to get digital to because I, from what I’ve seen, they tend to sway and move and, you know, go with the car and, you know, are they are the cables able to to hold that? You know, to do that?
Evan Rahey 17:17
Yeah, and that’s a good question in the current infrastructure. The biggest challenge is, how do you get the internet connection through a traveler cable? Okay? Because in the current setup, you can’t send a CAT5 down the traveler right now. So how do you get that internet connection?
Matthew Allred 17:33
Can’t send one you mean retroactively, correct, meaning, oh, hey, let’s just Yeah, tape it to it, or you can’t stop it inside. It’s already wrapped Exactly. Okay.
Evan Rahey 17:42
So how do I send that internet connection that’s usually brought into the building through, say, a CAT5 or CAT6 depending on your shielding there. How do I send it down the traveler cable and get it to the elevator car? Right? Well, right. Now what you have to do is convert it. You have to take the internet line, typically in the machine room or coming from the building. You convert it, and then you that allows you to send it down a shielded pair through the traveler cable, okay? And then you get back to the elevator car, and you convert it back to CAT5.
Matthew Allred 18:11
Interesting. So digital, analog, and then digital again.
Evan Rahey 18:15
Yeah, I don’t know if I would call it 100% analog, but yes, it’s technically, it’s, you’re going, you’re going CAT5. You’re taking that CAT5 connection, you’re sending it down shielded, twisted pair, and then back to CAT5
Matthew Allred 18:28
Interesting. Okay, so you it sounds like without the the new traveler cable, you’ve got to have some kind of, you know, bridge route, or something to kind of just do that translation on both ends
Evan Rahey 18:41
Exactly, You need something to be able to send the internet connection through the traveler cable. Now, in five or 10 years, we might be talking and be saying, Evan, every single traveler cable has CAT5 in it. Now there are traveler cables on the market, although, I would say less than 1% is being installed today with a CAT5 in the traveler cable
Matthew Allred 19:01
really, eventhough this is a five year old code, it’s just not
Evan Rahey 19:04
it’s just not being adopted from a traveler cable standpoint, I think that number will tick up as this code becomes more prevalent throughout the industry. And then if you have a traveler cable with CAT5 in it. You no longer need to convert it, right? So you just take the internet connection from your machine room or your building and you send it straight down to that elevator car. No need to convert it.
Matthew Allred 19:31
Now that sounds like the simplest solution, but obviously there’s some growing pains in the in the process,
Evan Rahey 19:36
and it’s another point to why you’d want to build on digital if you have an old digital solution, and then you find a building that has CAT5 in it, you now eliminate your components in the elevator, in the machine, right? Whereas, if you still have an analog system, you have all those components that are still part of your system that you you need, no matter what, right? But if you find a building that has CAT5 in it already, no need for the converter, no need to back up that converter, right? Then the internet connection straight the car, and now you’re connected.
Matthew Allred 20:02
Very cool, very cool. So where would you say is the biggest bang for the buck? If you know, where are people going to see savings if they’re if they choose to go into a digital system, versus the add on?
Evan Rahey 20:17
And I think that answer is different depending on who you speak to. If I’m an if I’m an end customer, if I’m a university, I’m a building owner, right? And I go with an all digital solution. Right off the bat, I’m saving money on being able to not pay the telecommunication company for an analog phone line anymore. I’m saving money on not having to wire my entire building copper lines from each machine room down to the elevator car down to the distribution module, and I’m also saving a little bit as far as my liability of having additional components, I need to back up. Now, if I’m an elevator contractor and I need to install this product, I’m thinking, How do I reduce manpower? I don’t want to send a team out there to install this product. That’s going to take six hours or eight hours. I want to make sure that I can get in there. I can spend two hours to set this system up. It’s simple, and I can get out of there. And if I need to service this entire system, I don’t need to service eight components. I can service three components.
Matthew Allred 21:15
Very cool. So Evan, what is the biggest opportunity with the 2019 code?
Evan Rahey 21:21
Well I think it depends on who you ask. Okay, I think the biggest opportunity, if I’m a building owner, I get to say I no longer need an analog line. I don’t have to pay ATT, Verizon, T Mobile for those copper POTS lines anymore. I don’t need to pay per elevator for phone line to be brought to my building. I can rip it all out, and I can run everything, the video and the audio all through that internet connection that I need to bring in anyway. If I’m an elevator contractor, my biggest opportunity is great. I don’t need to wire copper lines throughout the entire building. I don’t need to service copper lines throughout the entire building. I can cut down my components for a two way, visual solution, and it makes my entire job much more simpler.
Matthew Allred 22:01
If I’m a person who can’t hear then my biggest opportunity is i i don’t have to worry about getting trapped inside an elevator.
Evan Rahey 22:06
The biggest opportunity from this code, obviously, is if somebody is hearing impaired and they’re in the elevator, they can now get and receive help. And that’s the most important that journey. I think even at times, I lose some focus on but this code and the solutions that stem from the code are helping people that are trapped inside an elevator, that may be experiencing their most terrifying moment in their life, right, right? Because you’re trapped in an elevator. For you or me, if we’re trapped in the elevator, it’s an awful experience. But if we’re trapped in the elevator and we can’t hear, we can’t communicate to the person on the other side, it makes that situation much more terrifying.
Matthew Allred 22:48
There may be a phone right there, but if I can’t speak or hear or both, then
Evan Rahey 22:53
My blood pressure’s through the roof. I’m trying to get help, and I have no idea if somebody’s coming in five minutes. Or if nobody, if that phone is broken and I’m stuck in here for forever, you have no idea.
Matthew Allred 23:06
Yeah, Evan, what percentage of mods are you seeing built with a digital technology backbone?
Evan Rahey 23:14
Yeah, I would say today we’re still seeing probably only about 30% maybe even under 30% of going with a fully digital solution, 70 or even more are still utilizing an old analog technology to build their two way visual system on Thank you. And that’s not enough. That’s right, no
Matthew Allred 23:37
so Evan does the 2019 code requirement that requires two way video communication affect Canada as well?
Evan Rahey 23:46
Absolutely, and it’s under the jurisdiction of CSA in Canada, and more and more providences are starting to adopt the code similar to similar to what we see in the United States. The options in Canada are limited, but really, there is no forward thinking company in Canada right now that’s allowing companies to build on digital. We’re one of the first ones in Canada that’s allowing people to simplify their solution and build completely on digital.
Matthew Allred 24:15
Very cool. So what is, what is the cold rollout look like? I mean, as I understand it, new or modernized equipment are required, but older stuff, just leave it alone until it needs a mod. Is that kind of how it works?
Evan Rahey 24:28
That is absolutely correct. So this code is not retroactive for any old elevators. When a new state adopts the code, they usually will set a certain date and time in the future, and then they’ll say, everybody, you have eight months, you have a year, you have some type of timetable to any permits pulled after this specific date, will have to have the new elevator code requirements
Matthew Allred 24:52
Gotcha. And it sounds like a lot of those have already gone into effect. I mean, I assume that the code passed in 2019, But the States didn’t immediately adopt Is that how that works?
Evan Rahey 25:04
Correct. You saw a couple states start the bandwagon off, and then more states followed. And we even have some states where some municipalities within a state will adopt. It more interesting without the entire state adopting it. Okay?
Matthew Allred 25:17
So it’s more about the, you know, the local inspectors and the local contractors and working together to make sure that they’ve got it.
Evan Rahey 25:24
And you bring up an important point about the local inspectors. It’s also important to educate the inspectors that are going into these buildings to make sure they know what to look for when inspecting a new 2019 code
Matthew Allred 25:37
right, right? Yeah, because they’re going to have to be the ones saying, If this does or does not pass
Evan Rahey 25:42
And it also gives a consistent message to the industry that allows them to build on I’ve heard different industries or different metros and markets say I’m confused about how much the elevator camera needs to view the floor. Now, depending on who you ask in a different market, they’ll tell you, it needs to cover 90% of the floor. It needs to cover 80% of the floor. Some will say, put a basketball in each four corners of the elevator. Needs to see that. So having a concise answer for questions like that is important to make sure the direction from manufacturers and the elevator contractors know what they need to install, right, right? That makes sense, because you don’t want to get to a situation when you install something. And the inspector comes and he has a different definition of what covering the floor means, and then you don’t get your elevator passed to be able to open
Matthew Allred 26:37
Right. Evan, what else would you like to share about the code, or about, you know, something you’ve learned in this industry, or what, what you’re passionate about, I guess
Evan Rahey 26:45
Yeah, about the code. I know we talk a lot about the code, and it’s really why I reached out to you. It’s is, I’m really trying to go anywhere across the country, and again, I jump up and down, and they say you don’t need to build on POTS lines anymore, right? There are solutions out there that allows you to use this code as a blessing, to upgrade your entire infrastructure system, right. Of course, I want them to use the Wurtec solution, but more importantly, I want them to build on a platform that will not require them to rip out a technology in three or four years, right? I want them to build for the future. And that’s what I go around when I’m sales meetings or any podcasts, if I’m talking to anybody, please build. Think about the future when you’re building your elevator technology.
Matthew Allred 27:34
yeah. What? What would you most like to see done in response to to this issue, to this, you know, thing you’re trying to educate everybody about?
Evan Rahey 27:45
Yeah, I just think a clear message throughout the industry right now, and even I can do a better job, as I’m talking, from the manufacturer of being an expert in the market, to say, Hey, we’ve spoken with the inspectors, and this is the message, and this is what exactly what you need to see. We’re probably about 90% there, but we can always do a better job of educating the market.
Matthew Allred 28:09
Nice, nice. Well, Evan, thank you for being with me today. It’s been a pleasure. Appreciate you being on the podcast with me.
Evan Rahey 28:16
Well thank you very much, Matt and I look forward to many more great conversations together. Thank you very much.
Matthew Allred 28:23
Thank you for listening to the elevator careers podcast, sponsored by the Allred group, a leader in elevator industry recruiting. You can check us out online at elevatorcareers.net please subscribe and until next time, stay safe.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai