Kevin Cunningham: Communicate and Learn Your Product
Intro:
Welcome to today’s episode of The Elevator Careers Podcast. Our guest today is Kevin Cunningham, an industry veteran with over 40 years of experience in elevator construction, modernization, and consulting. Kevin’s journey started with sheer determination—calling every day until he got his first job in the elevator trade.
In this episode, Kevin shares how his hands-on experience in the field shaped his career and ultimately led him to co-found HydraSafe Brake, a company dedicated to improving elevator safety with cutting-edge braking systems. We’ll explore Kevin’s insights on career growth, planning ahead, and the critical role of safety in the elevator industry.
So, buckle up and join us as we take a deep dive into the world of elevators and safety innovation with Kevin Cunningham.
Summary:
Kevin Cunningham, an industry veteran with over 40 years in elevator construction and modernization, shared his journey in the elevator industry. He emphasized the importance of communication and product knowledge. Kevin started in 1985 by persistently contacting Fujitec until they offered him a job. He transitioned from a helper to a mechanic in five years and enjoyed modernizations for their complexity. Planning ahead was crucial for him, learning from early mistakes. Moving from the field to consulting, he faced challenges in writing reports but developed templates for efficiency. His transition to manufacturing involved overcoming supply chain issues and emphasized the importance of learning the product and returning phone calls.
Transcript:
Kevin Cunningham 0:00
If you don’t know an answer, tell your customer, I don’t have an answer, but I’m going to get you an answer and get back to them. They appreciate that. That communication goes a long way. It really does. Communication number one in learning your product that you are selling, I think are the two most important things.
Matthew Allred 0:17
Hello and welcome to the Elevator Careers Podcast, sponsored by the Allred group. I am your host, Matt Allred, in this podcast, we talk to the people whose lives and careers are dedicated to the vertical transportation industry to inform and share lessons learned, building upon the foundation of those who have gone before to inspire the next generation of elevator careers. Welcome to today’s episode of the elevator careers podcast. Our guest today is Kevin Cunningham, an industry veteran with over 40 years of experience in elevator construction, modernization and consulting. Kevin’s journey started with sheer determination calling every day until he got his first job in the elevator trade. In this episode, Kevin shares how his hands on experience in the field shaped his career and ultimately led him to co found Hydra Safe Brake, a company dedicated to improving elevator safety with cutting edge braking systems. We’ll explore Kevin’s insights on career growth planning ahead and the critical role of safety in the elevator industry. So buckle up and join us as we take a deep dive into the world of elevators and safety innovation with Kevin Cunningham, this is part one. Kevin, welcome to the show.
Kevin Cunningham 1:28
Well, thanks for thanks for having me. Matt, appreciate it.
Matthew Allred 1:32
Yeah, I’m excited to be able to talk. I’ve enjoyed all of our conversations, and it’s a lot of fun, and I’m excited to talk with you. So love to find out. How did you get started in the elevator industry from the get go?
Kevin Cunningham 1:46
Boy, that’s a that’s a great story. The elevator industry is years ago when I got in 1985. It’s kind of funny. The the you you really needed to know someone to get into the elevator. Okay, I was fortunate enough where one of my neighbors-his dad and him, were in the elevator trade. And I asked him, I say, How do I get in? How do I get into this? And they’re like, Well, you know what, we don’t really know anybody to get in, but years ago, we did. But anyway, they told me FujiTec had a lot of work in Chicago. And I said, Well, where’s the office? So I was driving a truck at the time for a window manufacturer at a very young age. I think it was 20-21
Matthew Allred 2:31
Well, let me ask you, what was it that intrigued you? Why would you why would you even think to ask that question? I guess
Kevin Cunningham 2:37
You know, again, I mean, it was the elevator business, and what they did kind of intrigued me to begin with. Okay, I was a mechanical, you know, type of guy like to work on cars, stuff like that. So really, my way in was to go to Fujitec’s office literally every day. Or I called him, wow, three months straight.
Matthew Allred 2:58
We’re not going to get rid of this guy unless we
Kevin Cunningham 3:01
And it’s funny. Finally, at the time, you know, I got a call from the office, and they said, the guy that got me, and he says, you know, Kevin, I am really sick of hearing from you. So if you want a job in the elevator business, you start tomorrow, be at the union hall, and you start tomorrow with
Matthew Allred 3:16
If you don’t show up, that’s it, right? We’re done.
Kevin Cunningham 3:18
That’s it, you know, so I was kind of excited, but me driving a truck at the time was great because I was able to pop in all the time, every day, and he just literally, after a month, he’s like, Yeah, I’m, don’t, I’m not here. Tell him, I’m not here. But so that’s a pretty interesting story, so
Matthew Allred 3:38
And I’m intrigued in several ways, right? A that you knew to even ask the question, and B, that you had the tenacity to just keep knocking on the same door. Oh, yeah, that’s impressive.
Kevin Cunningham 3:49
The squeaky wheel, right?
Matthew Allred 3:51
Yeah, and I’m just going to keep squeaking until you, give me the right answer, yeah. Love that. Love that. So you started as a mechanic then, is that how?
Kevin Cunningham 4:01
No started as a helper in the trade. You know, at that time, there was really no set apprenticeship program, okay, as soon as you got through all your schooling, you were able to actually take your mechanics exam, if you thought you were ready to take it. Nowadays, it’s a it’s a five year apprenticeship program, from that helper status to a mechanic status.
Matthew Allred 4:24
Gotcha. So Gotcha. How long were you in the in the field then?
Kevin Cunningham 4:29
I was in the field. Well, with the helper end of it, I got in ’85 took my mechanics exam in ’90. I was in a field for a little over 20 years, wow, before I kind of transferred, kind of transferred out of that, and office, end of it, and things of that nature, and then got into the consulting end of it.
Matthew Allred 4:45
Yeah, 20 years is a long time. What did you What was your favorite thing about being in the field?
Kevin Cunningham 4:51
You know what I liked the most? And I started out in construction, went into modernizations, did some surface work. Did some maintenance, helping mechanics and things. What I found to be the most intriguing part of it was the modernization end of it. I really did like the modernization end of it. That intrigued me, because you’re tearing out. You have to divorce the old elevators from maybe a bank of six or eight and whatnot, and divorce each one, and then you put a new elevator in, the new computerized circuitry that something new that you needed to, you know, again, coordinate apply to the system where everything works together. I found it, I found it intriguing to try to do that.
Matthew Allred 5:37
Is that? So, yeah, myself, having never done a mod. I talk about them with some people, but is the computer integration the most difficult part of actually getting it done? Or, I mean, I’ve heard it can be a bear, or that certain systems won’t even talk to each other, even from the same manufacturer, sometimes
Kevin Cunningham 5:58
True. Some of that was challenging. The most challenging parts were years ago, when they when they when they installed elevators, all the wiring it was black, is all black. So you have a bundle of wiring that big going to another controller. You have to divorce that. Where does the wire go? Well, there’s no tags, or today’s day and age. You know, every wire is numbered in different colors. And so you can take 123, or four, and, you know, go back to that circuit, disconnect it and whatnot. That wasn’t like it. So you have to trace kind of each individual wire back.
Matthew Allred 6:28
Is it like a tone generator or something? You have to put some kind of, I mean, I spent a little bit of time in IT 20 plus years ago, and, yeah, trying to find, you know, put a little tone on one wire, and it’s like, okay, but it seems to be bleeding on all these other wires or
Kevin Cunningham 6:44
And it was, yeah, it was something similar to that, right? You’re tracing those wires back, but they’re again, are they tied back to certain relays that are showing to other controllers or whatnot. Again, again, you go back to a central dispatching system back then. So you’re divorcing it from that and making sure that the other elevators are running, that’s the challenge. It’s as you’re disconnecting. It’s not a matter of cutting all the wires and saying, Okay, pull the controller out. Doesn’t work that way. So, you know, you gingerly go one at a time and make sure your elevators are still running in the bank. Now that’s the most intriguing part of challenging part, if you will.
Matthew Allred 7:24
Well, and then you bring back the new one on and like, say, if these new the new system, the old system, don’t, don’t speak the same language, then you may be playing a whole different game bringing on the new ones.
Kevin Cunningham 7:35
Yeah. And there’s different type of crossovers and different type of boards years ago that they have, and they still have them today, where you’re plugging your old system into the new system, and that’s the other challenge, right? Do they talk to one another? Do they dispatch the elevators the way they’re supposed to? Yeah, a lot of challenges. But if I found it fun, I found I found it fun, I found it intriguing. That end of it, I really, really liked
Matthew Allred 7:57
yeah, kind of fell in love with Mod, and 20 years later, you’re like, oh, let’s try something different. Is what it sounds like.
Kevin Cunningham 8:04
Yeah, it was, you know, then the office challenges came into effect. You know, later on in my career, I once got out of the elevator trade for a little bit, had my own business outside the elevator trade and and then, like I say, went back into the office after that as a superintendent, and again, all, all good every aspect of the business I’ve been in, and now I’m in the manufacturing end of it, which is a lot different than when I first started.
Matthew Allred 8:35
Yeah, yeah. What? What is one early lesson that you feel like really shaped your career.
Kevin Cunningham 8:42
You know, it was, it was, it was probably planning ahead, I think, was the most challenging part, as I grew up in the business and became a mechanic, and then I became, you know, a foreman, and if you will, I use the term adjuster loosely, because I adjusted third party equipment for the company Schindler that I used to work for. And I say that loosely because, again, I knew that equipment rather well. But, you know, it was no one else was doing it at that time for our company, right? So not a lot of guys were installing third party equipment. You’re installing what Schindler manufacturers, yeah, and for Otis you are installing Otis equipment. So it was different. It was different learning another system. And so found that exciting as well.
Matthew Allred 9:37
Were there, were there any experiences where you you learned to plan it ahead by not planning ahead. I mean, were there any of those things that kind of like, oh, wow
Kevin Cunningham 9:47
Planning ahead was, was a lesson that, again, my old I used to help an adjuster, and he told me, he says you’re not going to be able to think Step 10, yeah, while you’re doing step one. And I think that’s what I tried to do early on. I tried to think way ahead of where I needed to be. And I think that comes with experience with modernizations, one elevator after another. But eventually I got there, and I was able to say, as an example, Hey, I know in two weeks, we’re going to be dropping traveling cables. I need to get those ordered out for the for the teams on the job, or maybe installing car stations, or we’re going to be so I needed to think ahead. So I think that planning aspect is the most important part of trying to bring a job in on time you start a job, you might have eight weeks, 10 weeks, six weeks, 14 weeks, depending on the rise of the building, and you have to coordinate your time. So that was the most challenging part. And the most that I’ve learned is that planning, end of it
Matthew Allred 10:42
Is that a formal process where you actually calendar it out? Or is this more just kind of relying on your intuition that, oh yeah, hey, in two weeks, I need to do, you know, let’s order this. Or what’s, what’s kind of your practice?
Kevin Cunningham 10:54
More of just multi, you know, doing, performing multiple modernization, so knowing what those next steps were, you know, the first aspect is, you know, you’re gonna, you’re gonna maybe disconnect all the wiring, as I told you, you want to run off the new system as quick as possible. This way you’re on a new controller. All the wiring is dead. Now you can take out all the wiring, you know, you could put new wiring in place, things of that nature. So it’s more of a each time you do it. It’s more of a like riding a bicycle, right? You know what to do. You know, when it’s turning Okay. Balance.
Matthew Allred 11:24
Becomes real intuitive about, you know, just, just kind of the the flow of the process
Kevin Cunningham 11:29
Flow of the process. And, you know, where do you cut corners? Where do you save money? How do you save money while you’re in the course of a mod? You know, what do you need? What can you reuse? So that was a big part.
Matthew Allred 11:40
Were there any times early on where you’re like, Oh, whoops, I should have done that a week ago. Now. We’re now, we’re delayed a bit.
Kevin Cunningham 11:47
Oh, yeah, there was a lot of that. There’s a lot of that, yeah, when I first started out, and again, you kind of think you’re jumping ahead of things, but really you’re not, yeah. So a lot of that, yeah, it played a role, and you knew what not to do next time in the next car.
Matthew Allred 12:01
Yeah? Yeah. I mean, it’s those we’re gonna learn it, right? I mean, that’s how I learned how to tie my shoes. Was landing on my face and realizing, I guess I need to tie my shoes.
Kevin Cunningham 12:12
Yeah? Those are important lessons as you go on. So you don’t know, you know again, no one, you don’t know everything. So you know, you move forward and you learn as you go.
Matthew Allred 12:23
Yeah, yeah. Who are some of your early mentors that really made a difference for you?
Kevin Cunningham 12:28
You know, some of the it’s funny I call, I call them the old timers back then, right? The season guys. Now I’m the old timer, but those are the guys that I relied on and the things I didn’t know. I reached back out to them. Hey, you know, what’s the approach on this? Or what do you think I should do with this? Or how do you do that? You know? And I got that advice from those guys.
Matthew Allred 12:48
How long did it take you to kind of build that trust? And I’ve heard some different stories about how mechanics kind of don’t respect their their helpers early on. I mean, did it do you feel like it took a while to kind of whatever, prove yourself or, or, you know, have them trust you.
Kevin Cunningham 13:04
Yeah, it takes a while. It takes a while for the confidence level of the person that you’re, what we call helping, or you’re being an apprentice, helping a mechanic, if you will, assisting a mechanic. Yeah, it takes, it takes time to got to kind of know, well, what can you do? What can’t you do? What can I trust you with? Can I trust you with wiring up a door operator? Or are you strictly going to be taking garbage out off a job site all the time, right? You know, so, so, so that comes along with, with working with each individual and things of that nature, getting into projects where you you need the two people, yeah, no part, part of our, you know, I believe some of the problems today is a team, as I was part of, you know, only one guy’s working. Hey, hand me that pair of strippers. Hand me that screwdriver. Hand me. What we did is, is, and I did that with that same practice, is, I wanted to put my helper to work when I was a mechanic, just like I was put to work. Go do this. Because now I can see, okay, how do you how is he doing that? He needs a little more training on that end of it. Now, you know what to trust him on. Can I have him wire up door operator by himself? You know, things of that nature. And I think you learn, you learn that as you go along
Matthew Allred 13:04
Right, did you what kind of learning curve was there once you step out of the field and into the office? I mean, was little bit of a different world, in some respects
Kevin Cunningham 14:18
Little bit of a different world, different computer programs, things of that nature. The work was the same. You know, you have, you accumulate different teams under you that work for you. Or like I used to say, we all work together. We’re all one team. So again, if I fail, you fail, and vice versa. So it’s, it’s really knowing who you have, and it’s really preparing them, really for the work that comes ahead. What is that work? What does it look like? What are you installing? Did I order everything correctly? Did I set them up for success or failure? So that’s the biggest part of what you’re learning in the office, beside the fact of computer, new systems, things of that nature, right, right? So the bigger companies, the bigger companies were more challenging. I’ve worked for a bigger company. I’ve worked for smaller independents. So a lot less, lot less meetings in the smaller independent world
Matthew Allred 15:15
Absolutely right? More getting it done well, and then you moved on to Consulting at some point, and what was the, I guess, the biggest difference there from working from a contractor to moving to a consulting role
Kevin Cunningham 15:30
Yeah, that’s, that’s, and that’s a great question, right? I mean, I mean, moving from what I thought I knew, I’m thinking, Well, an elevator guy, been in the field, been enough, sure? What is there? No one consulting. I mean, I see a bunch of different consultants out there. I’ve worked at a there. I’ve worked with a bunch of different ones. There’s a huge learning curve. There’s a lot to learn.
Matthew Allred 15:48
Tell me, tell me a little bit about what were some of the bigger curves and bumps to kind of adapt to as a consultant.
Kevin Cunningham 15:55
You know, when I first, when I first started the consulting, end of it, writing a report. Great example. Um, I knew what to say. I knew what I looked at, but I stared at a blank screen, right? And I’m like, at a Word document, sure? What do I say? What do I so that, how do I say it? Right? How do I how do I do you say it? Yeah, articulate it in a way that that sounds intelligent and and what information am I? Am I giving the customer? What does that customer really want to know? So, a lot of that, you know, I’ve picked up throughout the years, I’ve had people that, you know, used to go through and read through reports, used to navigate through them before they even went out. I had admin that used to do that. I had other consultants that went through that to make sure that, you know, the repetition is being followed according to, you know, according to the reputation that we had, and, and, you know, I used to send, send reports back, red lined all the time. I mean, a lot of red lines, right. And that’s how I learned, that’s how I learned. I mean, it’s I saved those red lines. So the next report I went through the red lines, do I say that? And I and eventually, you know, over, over time, all those red lines came out, and I learned how to write a write a report, but most people today, again, even even the consultants today, still have trouble writing reports. Or if you ask consultants, they’ll tell you, I hate writing a report.
Matthew Allred 17:14
It’s a different skill altogether than than a lot of what they’re probably used to and maybe enjoy. And I mean, I’m sure there are people out there that love writing reports, but, you know, marrying up those different things into one job, is the trick.
Kevin Cunningham 17:31
It’s challenging. But also, you know, when you’re sitting with a customer, finding out, what are you looking for, what do you want, what are you doing, you know, and also having templates, you know, we built templates as we progressed, we built templates so we kind of knew, you know, what’s that first paragraph going to be? What are we telling them about? We telling you about deficiencies first? Are we telling them about their equipment first, or are we giving them that outline of what they have? So having those templates really helpedmoving forward, because you already kind of knew what you’re going to say. You’re kind of filling in the blanks
Matthew Allred 18:01
Well, And I think it would help a lot. You know, with those who are coming in, maybe they’re new, newer to consulting. It’s like, you know, instead of having a blank sheet, oh, hey, Kevin’s done 85% I just have to fill in a few details
Kevin Cunningham 18:15
Yes, and it’s a lot, and it’s a lot easier, because then you can get out what you really want to say, What? What? What is the idea of, again, of what I’m trying to get across to the customer? What’s the customer looking for? Is it strictly dollar related? Is it future related for his assets? Are we going to build this thing up over the next five years? What is, you know? So that all plays a role, too. So when you learn all that
Matthew Allred 18:39
Yep, yep. Well, so now you’ve moved to to the manufacturing side, which is a total different slice of the pie. What are some of the things you’ve had to learn in this in this space?
Kevin Cunningham 18:52
I like the consulting end better. You know, we came up with with a product about 10-11, years ago. Really, my partner did, came up the original idea, and we took, we built it in our garage prototype, and went from there. We kind of thought, hey, once we start moving forward, you know, we’ll create it, we’ll build it, we’ll get a patent on it, and once we get a patent, we’re done. I’m done. I’m going to sell it. I’m going to, I’m going to sell it to someone else out there. Maybe it’s an Otis, or Schindler, Kone, or TK, Thyssen at the time, yeah, who knows? And once we did all that, it never came, never came through. Everybody said, hey, I want to, I want to see it. Want to see it. Did you guys got one installed? So at one point in time, I told my partner, look, we gotta, we gotta go into manufacturing and and that was another I have, I have another respect more so now for some of the elevator companies, when they said, Boy, you know what? I can’t get this part. Come on, guys, what do you mean? You can’t get the part? Come on. I’ll find it for you. It’s it’s really supply chain issues there. It’s real. It is Real in certain situations, sure. Can you find a board here or there? Yeah, you can. But when you’re going long term or dealing with manufacturers, foundries, machine shops, grabbing some of your parts and pieces to put together. That’s a huge learning curve. That’s part of it that, again, you really got to have very tight partnerships. So that’s that’s part of, really the main, the mainstay, the manufacturing. And because everything is changing, and there’s certifications you need. And people come through your shop and you know, you have to verify that each and every year, and your CSA approvals, lift Institute approval. Lot more to it
Matthew Allred 20:51
Yeah, well, it’s an orchestration on a much grander scale. I mean, it’s one thing to orchestrate a mod but, but if you’re having to orchestrate, where, where are the bolts, where are the nuts, where are the screws, where are the wires, where are the where are all these things coming from? And which of these am I actually going to produce in house? Which of these am I going to actually in source? And, oh, are they coming from overseas? And, yeah, something I haven’t
Kevin Cunningham 21:14
And that relates, you know, you get back to planning, right? It gets it really does relate now to processes and procedures. Sure. And what is that first step when you get that product in, what do you do and you keep on the process, procedure? End of it, from first cleaning off one of our calipers to actually putting it and running it through a testing simulator, if you will, logging it all on a computer and boxing it up and shipping it out. So that’s the biggest thing. You have to have everybody on the same page as you are manufacturing and have that, again, that procedure or process put in place very
Matthew Allred 21:53
Absolutely, yeah. So having worked in, you know, kind of, I wouldn’t say it’s every part of the business. But you’ve, you’ve kind of touched every part of the business at this point, and, yeah, and have had a very interesting career, you know, and which I think is awesome. I think it’s, it’s amazing that that people can kind of go from bottom, top and side to side, and experience so much of what you had, what you know, as we, you know, kind of finish up this, this interview about your career. What advice would you give to somebody who, you know, maybe they’re the kid knocking on the door or coming in as a new salesperson? What just what would you say?
Kevin Cunningham 22:32
You know, the sales people I used to get when I was in the office, when I was in the office, and you get the new, new folks coming in, pretty sharp, kids, guys and gals, right? They used to come through. And the most important thing, I used to tell them was two things, two main things, return phone calls, very, very important, and learn the product you’re selling. So again, you know, push button as simple as it sounds. Hey, these guys want all new buttons inside their elevator or all new hall stations. Learn your product. Don’t just go in the computer system and say, Well, I think it’s a TX 21 or or a yz123, and just put the proposal together and send it and call it a day. Learn that product. So I used to my recommendation was go out and see your technicians. Learn that button. Is it an ATOMs button? Is it an innovations? Is it an EPCO? Is it learn those buttons so you know and you can talk intelligently now to your customer, because now you’re in an arena where you can sell them something that you have that confidence in. And again, I think here for this building, you would need PB, 101, or whatever that might be. I’ve always recommended that, and some of those folks have followed through with that, the returning the phone call. It might sound kind of crazy, but in today’s day and age, everybody’s email based. I was still the old school when I was in there, and I would still pick the phone up, or I would drop out and visit my customer, especially toward the end of the year, my larger customers, and because of doing that, they’d always tell me, Hey, I got a couple 100 grand of spend by the end of the year. So instead of an email, it’s more of a personal right, you’re on a personal level with them. And again, when people do place phone calls to you, they’re placing a phone call for a reason. And I used to tell the sales staff, account managers, if you don’t know an answer, tell your customer, I don’t have an answer, but I’m going to get you an answer, and get back to them. They appreciate that that communication goes a long way. It really does. Communication number one in learning your product that you are selling, I think are the two most important things
Matthew Allred 24:40
Perfect, that’s beautiful. And honestly, I’ve heard from a lot of people that exactly the same thing that, you know, call me back and people won’t call me back. Well, they’re not going to get my business. You know, it’s, it’s pretty straightforward in that regard.
Kevin Cunningham 24:53
It’s frustrating because, again, you don’t have to battle as if a customer is calling. You kind of look at that as 80 to 90% of the sale. Sure, all you got to do is return, return the phone call and ask them, what can they do for you today? And you’d find that you’d make more money that way than any other way.
Matthew Allred 25:11
Yeah, but yep, you know, awesome, Kevin, thank you for for this interview. It’s been a pleasure, privilege, and I appreciate you being with me today.
Kevin Cunningham 25:19
Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it.
Matthew Allred 25:21
Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Elevator Careers Podcast, sponsored by the Allred group, a leader in elevator industry recruiting. Please visit our YouTube channel at Elevator Careers, or check us out online at elevatorcareers.net. Please like and subscribe and until next time, stay safe.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai